Showing posts with label Hordes. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Hordes. Show all posts

Thursday, November 18, 2010

Games that Died

These aren't games that have died everywhere. I recognize fully that all four of these games are still played, some with more frequency than others, elsewhere. Heck, some are played with frequency in this area. But these are games that died for me that I have played at one time or another.

I'm not going to include things like Uncharted Seas, which I have played a couple of times but am not playing much since then. The games on this list are some that I have played with some frequency at some point in time. I was thinking about one of them earlier today, and it got me thinking about why some games survive and some don't.



Arcane Legions

The game that I was thinking about that sparked my thinking about this topic was Arcane Legions. At GenCon 2009, this was the game that got my attention and got me pretty excited. It is a fast paced mass army game with some pretty unique mechanics. It wasn't too expensive to get into, though the collectible aspect of it was a turnoff. Fortunately there were not that many models that you needed to get, so it turned out to be affordable. The mechanics were fresh and it was a boatload of fun to play.

So why did it fail? I know it's still a big controversy (I checked their forums today and they're still talking about it), but for our gaming group, we simply could not deal with the archery rules the way they were. Whether archery units are broken in comparison to basic units or not isn't the point. Even when the game was in its infancy, the forums were filled with people harping on the fact that archery was too powerful. The company never addressed this issue, and soon people stopped playing the game, not wanting to play a game where one faction - the Hans who excelled at archery - would win most games where all other things were equal. That the company never addressed these concerns adequately left a sour taste, and soon we were looking for different games to try.

The game continues to flounder. Its first expansion has been put on hold indefinitely as it tries to build its player base. But of course it's hard to build players when there are no new models and toys coming out. To me, this is an example of what could have been a great game being completely mishandled by its company.

Even still, sometimes I look longingly at my models and wouldn't mind getting a game or two in again. Just enough to remind me why I stopped playing in the first place.



Monsterpocalypse

Monsterpocalypse was a game where you'd hit the table with massive monsters, aliens, robots, etc. and fight in a huge city scape. Several of us got into this game, and despite my insistence that I would not buy into it when it first came out, I was quickly convinced that I should and ended up joining the group with my own Martian army.

It was a pretty fun game for a while. But this game suffered from a couple of major issues to me.

First, it was collectible. I had to buy random packs that might come up with things I'd never use, and if I did, I had to hope that my friends got random stuff they'd never use that I would use, and would want to swap with me for the things I got that I didn't want. Annoying. We were able to get around this when we found sites that were selling singles, which was nice, so we didn't have to worry too much about that.

Second, it had collectors versions of all the monsters. This was not a case of "there are a couple of special models you can only get through tournaments", this was a case of "every monster can have a third, different form and you have to do different things to get them." Some you could get by winning tourneys. Some you had to buy a certain amount of product for. But whatever it was, there were a large number of models you simply could not get, and that discouraged me from wanting to play. I'm a completest, and not being able to complete my faction left me unhappy.

Third, and this is the one that really sealed it for me, we found out that every year, the game would cycle out six new factions and "retire" the six old ones. Sure you could keep playing them, but it meant that every year, if I wanted to keep up, I had to drop an entire faction I'd spent time and money on and start all over. For me, it meant it would be a good time to get out of the game, if I was still playing it.

It ended up that I wasn't still playing it at the end of the year. The reason for that is that it lost interest among my group. Their reasons for dropping it had less to do with the way it was being released like mine did, and more with the fact that many times, the game came down to "who got the first chance to throw their opponent through a string of buildings." When one powerful move could win games, it became frustrating.



Warhammer 40k

I know this game isn't dead. All I'm just saying it didn't appeal to me, and figured I should explain why.

Honestly, I don't know so much why this one didn't work for me. It's a decent enough game. It was fun the couple times I played it. I have an army that looks interesting to me. I think I can come up with a couple of the feelings I have when I think about it.

First, it's vastly different from other games I've played. In my experience, I'm much more interested in the skirmish games. 40k is definitely not one of those.

Second, I like when I can look across the table and know exactly what I'm facing. The learning curve for everything I'd be facing in 40k is very, VERY high.

Third, and I know this is really kinda picky, I like knowing who won and lost a game at the end. A number of times I played 40k, by the end of the game, we calculated up our points and ended up in a tie. A tie! I had just spent two hours playing, and ended up with a tie. I don't mind if I lose, and I love to win, but walking away with a tie leaves me feeling like, "Why did I bother?"

Now the odd thing about that, and I admit it makes me a hypocrite, is that I don't mind tying when I play Malifaux. I think it might be because ties are so much more rare in Malifaux and seemed fairly frequent in 40k, but I'm not sure.

In the end, the game was long to set up, long to play, and might not leave me feeling satisfied. I never felt like I really "got it" with the game. In other games, I can pick them up, figure out pretty quickly what I should be worried about, figure out what of my units are designed to do things, etc. but I never got to that point with 40k. That might have to do with the infrequency of playing - I couldn't watch for patterns in how things worked, but whatever the reason, it never really struck me as a game I would enjoy playing much.



Warmachine / Hordes

And finally, the big daddy of them all. Warmachine and Hordes. I'm going to come out and say first that I don't regret any of my time or money in this game. I got a good four years out of playing this game, and loved a lot of it. I met a lot of people through this game, including Dan, and made a lot of friendships. Overall, I call my time with this game a huge success.

So why don't I play it anymore? A lot of it goes back to my reasons for disliking 40k.

They made a new rule set: Mark 2, and already had hundreds of models available. When Mark 2 hit, everything changed. Everything. In order to keep up with the game, I'd have to relearn the entire game.

Not necessarily a bad thing - I could have done it. Mark 2 went a long way to cleaning up some of the problems I had with the game. The rules bloat, etc. But it also made the game size larger. More models were fielded. The game that had started as a skirmish game turned into an army-sized game. I tried a few games of it, but decided it was just too big for me. I know I can play smaller point levels, but it didn't seem like the game was intended for smaller point levels anymore. So I saw Mark 2 as the perfect time to drop the game and look for a new skirmish game to pick up.

Now that I have a new one - Malifaux - I am watching it and noticing that, frankly, it's going to do pretty much the same thing. It's going to get too big with too many models and too much rules bloat, and I'm going to want to drop it. But with luck, I'll get a good four years of fun out of it too, and by the, hopefully there will be a new skirmish game I can get in on the ground floor and ride the beginning of too.

Wednesday, March 17, 2010

What Happened to Warmachine?

With the new games that I've been playing recently, I feel like (and I've heard others say it too) I'm back to the beginning of Warmachine again.

For a few years now, Warmachine has been on the outs with me. I started playing back when Escalation came out (the first expansion, about a year after the game started up with Prime). At that point, there were four warcasters, about 10 heavy and light jacks, a half dozen troop options and a handful of solos. It was great. We had options, but not too many. The game was clean. This was before the warcasters required two cards to fit all their rules. It was before the backs of the cards were filled with tiny print, just to fit everything. I could carry my models around in a single carrying case. Life was good.

Around a year later, Apotheosis was released. I loved it at the time. I remember being at GenCon with Dan and Jay getting a first look at the book. We bought it, rushed to find some space to sit down, and started devouring it. We had so much excitement for the new stuff. We each, naturally, jumped to our own factions first and quoted rules with an "OHMIGOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!" mentality.

Of course, in retrospect, Apotheosis was the beginning of the end. They introduced four new warcasters in the book, and a new jack. Five new entries - not bad. But the problem was that the warcasters were so complicated and had so many rules that they made you dizzy just to read them. It was almost half a year before we each had even tried all of the new casters yet, let alone mastered them. I remember when I started using Epic Haley (the last one I had to try) almost six months after the book was released and just feeling overwhelmed. By this point, they were already starting to release the models from the next book that would be coming out in the following summer. I wasn't able to figure out what to do with everything in Apotheosis before Superiority came out.

Superiority was another massive book with a lot of additions to the factions. It introduced another unit type - cavalry - and the game took on a very different scope. No longer could I use my troops from Prime. My gun lines did nothing as cavalry moved too fast to deal with effectively. I didn't mind it as much - I enjoyed the melee part of the game more, but pretty soon everyone was figuring out ways to kill armies on turn three or sometimes even turn two. I had to expand my carrying cases to two and lugging around my models became a chore.

Legends eventually hit a couple years later, but by then, I was already starting to lose interest in the game. I had stopped and started a couple times already, each time taking longer to get back in to the game. Legends offered a lot of great models, but they were all clearly on a power level above much of the rest of the game. I played occassionally, but eventually just stopped.

Mark II was announced and the playtesting for that began and I actually found myself interested in the game again. I would head out to the Game Parlor on Warmachine night - something I hadn't done in a while - and try to get a few games in. Cygnar was becoming pretty strong. When the playtest ended, I was very excited about most of Cygnar.

But then they released the "final" rules. Most things I liked about Cygnar were changed in very fundimental ways. I was shocked. I had finally worked up the excitement for the game again only to have it all pulled away at the end. It shattered a bit of my desire to play the game, and I shelved it again.

When Mark II was finally released, a few of the rules had changed back in Cygnar's favor, but by then, I was already disappointed by the game and spent a while not wanting to play it. Hordes Mark II playtesting was coming up and I was cautiously optimistic. I didn't want to get excited for Legion, even though I was very happy to see how the rules started, because I still remembered what happened to Cygnar. True to form, when the "final" rules for Legion were released, a lot of the things I liked about the faction had been stripped out.

At this point, I am ready to shelve my Warmachine. It may come out again to play later, but I've done my time with them. I don't regret playing the game. I had a great time with it while I played it, but it just grew too far beyond what I wanted. I liked the small games. I liked the skirmishes instead of the battles. I liked that there were not many models. I liked being able to haul my models in a single case.

That's what I like about Malifaux and Firestorm Armada now. The game is still small. I know they will be releasing more for it, but at the moment, it's small enough that I can wrap my arms around it and be satisfied. I'd love for it to stay that way, but I know it won't. Malifaux's already said they're releasing at least three expansions. Firestorm has already released Escort ships and is working on the Heavy Cruisers. Both games will, eventually, get too big like Warmachine did. But for now, they're a blast.

Tuesday, March 16, 2010

Hordes Updated on Privateer Press Site

The final update for Hordes has been released on the Privateer Press main site. I cannot access it from work, so I have not read through it yet. I've taken a glance at a few of the reviews of the changes, and overall, my opinion comes out as a strong: "meh". Warmachine and Hordes just haven't done it for me in a few years, and while I was very excited that perhaps MKII would bring me back into the fold, they really have not.

Anywho, that's a conversation for a different topic. At this point, I'm just going to post up what I read from someone else about the changes. I'm sure it's not a complete list, but here we are. Thanks to Thunder_God of the Privateer Press forums for compiling this.

pMadrak
+Reach
+StrangleHold
-Battering Ram

eMadrak
Rathrok's Awakening changes to 1 fury per kill.
+Tide of Death
+Reach
-Vortex of Destruction
+Blood Fury

pDoomy
Goad changed to enemy models
-Hex Blast
+Purification

eDommy
Goad changed to enemy models
Weapon's name changed to "Willbreaker"
Powerful Attack fixed focus to fury.
Sunder spirit no lobger allows casting the animus.
Wild Aggression changed to living

Grim
Added explanation of Hunter.

Pyre Troll
+1 Arm
+1 cost
Flaming Fists changed to critical Fire. +2 damage.
Spit now Continuous effect fire.

Winter Troll
Rime, "the attack" replaced with "the end of the attacking model's activation"

Mulg
Runebreaker now also prevents spells, and affects all enemy models.
Overtake changed to Protective Fit
+Relentless

Caber Tosser
Thunderbolt replaced with Momentum. Same as Thumper.

Thumper Crew
small and medium bases and slammed, large bases are just knocked down.

Long Riders
Lost Brace for Impact
Bull Rush - Clarified that moves of less than 3" will be regular attacks.

Horthol
+2 damage
Lost brace for impact
Bull Rush - Clarified that moves of less than 3" will be regular attacks.

pKaya
Pack hunter now doesn't restrict the bonus to targets in her control area. But the warbeasts need to be in her CTRL area, and it's melee, so a couple of inches gained.
Spirit Fang +1 pow

eKaya
Alpha - Now simplty allows beasts in her battlegorup to run, charge, slam and trample for free.
+Flank [faction warbeast]
Glimmer -1 pow

Morvahna
+1 Arm

Shadowhorn Satyr
+1 Fur
+1 mat
+1 cost
+1 pow on Horns

Pureblood
-1 rat
Animus now Wraith Bane, also grants magical weapon.

woldwarden
Geomancy - Changed warcaster to warlock

Megalith
Geomancy - Changed warcaster to warlock

Reeves
-1 rat
+2 range

Tharn Shaman
weapon attachment
-1 mat
-1 rat
-1 cmd
lost officer
+Assault
-Granted:Brutal Charge
+Lightning RNg 10 POw 13 electro leap magical electricity

Sentry Stones
+Stealth
-Prowl

Shifting stones
Teleportation - no longer completely within

Lord of the Feast
+1 cost
+1 mat

Kromac - human
+1 CMD
-Beast Mind
+ Jump
2xweapons
Wild Arression living only

Kromac - Beast
CMD 3
Beast Mind simplified - Cannot upkeep, cannot cast non-animi spells.
2xweapons

pMorghoul
Double Strike - removed focus wording

eMorghoul
Feat - Assassination run
+Arcane Assassin
-Death Rite
+Fan of shadows
+bind
-Lock the target
+Silence of Death

pMakeda
-Riposte

eMakeda
-overtake

Hexeris
+1 warbeast point
Feat affects firendly living and all enemy models
Can reave focus instead of other models, not just warlocks
-ashes 2 ashes
Death Match - +2 mat and Vengeance
-Hollow
-Rapport
-Spirit Leech
+obliteration
+psychic vampire
+soulfire
+soul slave

Zaal
-Field Officer [ancestral guardian
ghost sight moved from weapon to Zaal
+Soul Converter
Sunder Spirit no longer allows casting the animi

Modikaar
+cull soul
Void lord changed to void spirits only
Hollow - soul instead of fury

Brute
forces to use Intuition

Rhinodon
Tail -1 pow

Molik Karn
forces to use Intuition

Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard
Granted changed to Side Step
Tactics changed to Ranked attack

Venators
+1 arm

Venator Catapult
+1 arm

Ancestral Guardian
+1 FA


eLylyth
-lock the target
Pin cushion range 10
+Pursuit

pThagrosh
Athanc added Immediately
Mutagenesis clarfied

eThagrosh
Athanc added Immediately
-elite cadre

Vayl
+1 cmd
Cat and mouse wording changed

Rhyas
Fixed feat wording - damaged
Dash clarified to affect herself

Saeryn
feat prevents all melee attacks
Blight bringer only warbeast
-Sunder Spirit
+Hellfire

Shredder
+Snacking
Rabid returned to full turn.

Raek
Animus grants parry only
cost 2

Scather
does corrosion damage

Incupi
Placing clarification

Bog Trog Ambushers
+pathfinder
Added wording on ambush about formation

Bone Grinders
+2 magic ability

Brigands
-1 arm
-pathfinder
-bushwack
+ prayers

Posse
-Feast
+March - pathfinder for turn
+Unyielding

Rorsh
Will work for Cygnar, Khador, Protectorate, and Cryx.

Brine
bacon now d3

saxon
+pathfinder
Reconnaissance now faction warrior model/unit within 5"

Wrong eye
Will work for cryx

Wednesday, February 3, 2010

Hordes Legion MK II Overview

Of course, this is only my opinion. It’s the correct opinion, but if you’re okay with being wrong, you can disagree.

When I first saw Cygnar MK II during the fieldtest, I was very excited. Storm Blades were fun, the Storm Clad was great. Gun Mages could shoot well, etc. Then, when the actual rules for MKII Cygnar came out, a lot of what I was excited for ended up being dropped in power or stayed at its former lack of glory. Darius and Kraye, two of my favorites, were at the bottom of the pack. The Thunderhead became a liability unless you went with a lot of lightning-immune stuff. Gun Mages lost some range. Electro Leap remained a difficult prospect to pull off well. Centurions were nigh useless. I could go on.

So when Legion MKII rules came out, I was very excited again, but cautiously so. Lylyth looked like fun, and Vayl and Saeryn, my two favorites from before, held the top ranks of Legion power. There were some spots that needed work, and they got attention. But throughout the whole field test, I was still cautiously optimistic. Being burned by Cygnar still stood fresh in my mind. Finally, Privateer Press released the “final” field test rules for the models, and I felt exactly what happened to Cygnar happened again. They teased us with a lot of really fun things, and then pulled the rug out from under us at the end. Saeryn and Vayl both got heavily hit, which means of the warlocks I own (every one but Epic Thagrosh), there is only one that looks like fun: Absylonia. And she dies to anything that can deal with upkeep spells. Beyond the warlocks, I’m pleased with Legion. It’s just that I can’t find a warlock that I am excited about trying.